Daily Kos

Clinton Camp Disparages Youth Vote

Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:45:21 AM PDT

A mere week after launching Students for Hillary and touting its support among young people, top advisers to Hillary Clinton were busy in the spin room Saturday night disparaging them, claiming that Obama's supporters were young and unlikely to caucus.

Good strategy:  A week after finally setting up your campaign's organization to attract young people, tell them they won't vote anyway so their presence is irrelevant.

You can either dispute the idea that Obama has broad support among young people, or you can reinforce and disparage it, but either way you might want to make up your mind first before opening your mouth:

At least two of Hillary Clinton’s upper-echelon advisers, Mandy Grunwald and Mark Penn, were decidedly unimpressed.

"Our people look like caucus-goers," Grunwald said, "and his people look like they are 18. Penn said they look like Facebook."

Penn added, "Only a few of their people look like they could vote in any state."

I have to say that I find these comments shocking, and I would expect better of any campaign that hoped to end up with our party's nomination.

First of all, people who are 18 ARE caucus-goers and, yes, young people do vote.

In 2004, young voters made up somewhere around 1/5 of the primary electorate in the early states. In Iowa, youth turnout in the caucuses quadrupled (pdf) in 2004, and 18-29 year olds constituted a larger share of the electorate [17%] than 30-44 year olds.  

In New Hampshire, young voters also increased their primary turnout (at pace with the rest of the electorate).  In three of the first primary states, youth participation in the general election increased substantially in 2004 and in 2006.

Second, let me get this straight, young voters turning out to commute to Des Moines to attend a five-hour long party convention on a Saturday night is evidence that these young people will not turn out to caucus?  You want to run that by me again?

Third, let's leave aside that the Clinton campaign is basically on the record planning on a low youth turnout, which obviously leads one to doubt the sincerity or optimism of their efforts to do otherwise ––– a grave mistake, especially for a general election nominee.

Mark Penn's "They look like Facebook" deserves to be one of the most ridiculed strategic assertions of this campaign.

Lastly, let me deal with some of the assertions one by one.

1.  From out of state?

The Obama and Edwards campaigns specifically pledged that although out-of-state supporters would attend rallies on the day of the Dinner, only Iowa residents would be given tickets to get inside.  The Clinton campaign made no such public promise.

2.  A Young Crowd?

Mark Penn's laughably hyperbolic claim that only "a few" were of legal age to vote runs up against the observations of journalists at the event.  Also notice his lovely "in any state," referencing disparagingly that Iowa voters are able to caucus at 17.

Yes, Mark Penn, these crowds look like caucus-goers to me:

 

Tags: Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, Youth Vote, Iowa Caucus, President 2008, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 84 comments

    •  Thanks--great pix. :) (0+ / 0-)

      Not even his fellow POW will vote for John McCain.

      by boofdah on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:10:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  thanks for answering a ? i asked yesterday (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Carrington Ward

      i was trying to get an answer to the attendee question yesterday.  i asked on several threads and the question sunk like a rock.

      however, you inadvertently provided part of the answer, so thanks!

      i was unaware that both edwards and obama pledged to only let iowans into the dinner w/their ticket allotments.  i honestly wondered, after watching all the videos and snippets here and there, whether obama was/is making the same mistake we made w/the dean campaign.  for those who don't recall, trucking in non-iowans to canvass is a really effing bad idea.  it's even worse when you use out of staters to pack the jj dinner.  yea, we learned that the hard way.  glad to hear obama and edwards let the iowans into the dinner.  but i'm still really wondering whether the hoards will have a favorable or unfavorable effect on obama's support amongst iowans.  seriously, if he's using tons of out of staters to canvass, then i really am worried about his ability to stop the hillary train.

      and before you all flame me, please realise that this us a lesson that should have been learned in 2004.  a contributing factor to dean's iowa collapse was his dependence on out of staters.  it did not work at all.  and so i'm only voicing this concern based on my own experience.

      John Cornyn is an asshole with shoes. Support Rick Noriega!

      by anna on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:41:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Come From Aways (0+ / 0-)

        It's a good question...  There are an awful lot of abashed ex-Deaniacs in the Obama campaign -- one clue is Obama's reception in Vermont.

        http://vermontdailybriefing.com/...

        The other was the recurrent self-effacing jokes about Deaniacs-from-away at the "Camp Obama" events.

        And then there's the fact that Obama's a mid-westerner.  His folks from Rock Island and Moline are going to make  a less dramatic entrance than folks from New York or San Francisco.

        From what I read on Politico, Obama and Hillary brought about the same number of people to the dinner.  Hillary just brought more career politicians...

  •  So I guess it's true (8+ / 0-)

    Hillary Clinton's campaign is the only one that ever spins anything.

    •  Spin is fine, just wrong when you reinforce (8+ / 0-)

      untruths about the youth vote.  The truth is that they do turn out.  And telling them they don't is totally unhelpful and not borne out by the facts.

      Close races such as Montana in 2006 were won of the strength of youth turnout.  We can do even better in '08, but it would help if we ditched the unwarranted pessimism.

      •  I don't think Penn was disparaging young voters (8+ / 0-)

        And he certainly wasn't talking about 18-29 year olds as a group.  Despite the stats you quote in your post, the truth is that college age Iowans don't usually caucus much.  From yesterday's USA Today:

        DES MOINES — Democrat Barack Obama is generating palpable excitement on Iowa campuses. But he's up against both history and new challenges as he tries to turn that energy into votes in the state's leadoff presidential caucuses.

        In 2004, according to the state Democratic Party, only 3.9% of 124,000 Democratic caucus participants were age 18 to 24. And that was for Jan. 19 caucuses. This time they are on Jan. 3, when virtually all Iowa colleges are on winter break.

        "It's clearly an untapped resource," Democratic pollster Geoffrey Garin says of the youth vote. "Many candidates have believed that their path to victory in Iowa was to vastly expand the universe of caucus participants and bring in new people, particularly young people. It hasn't quite worked out before."

        It's just a fact that older people, and previous caucus goers, are more likely to caucus than college age people.  Maybe that'll change this year, but that's the way it's been despite efforts from previous campaigns.

        •  But as Obama showed us on Saturday night (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          ScottyUrb, terrapin station84

          he has a tight organization to get those who have never caucussed before where they need to be and with a firm strategy in hand on caucus night.

          •  That's great for him (6+ / 0-)

            And I think our nomination process would be much better off with younger voters playing a larger role in determining who our nominee is--especially with states as homogeneous as Iowa and New Hampshire being crucial.

            •  It may happen ... (4+ / 0-)

              But it's been promised a lot more than it's been delivered on.

              The fact is that in most places the local activists skew older - the people who go to the local Democratic club meetings, the county Labor Day picnic, and so on. I imagine the same is true in Iowa, and those are the people you can count on to caucus, because they know the drill.

              Getting new caucusgoers - young or otherwise - to show up is simply a lot tougher.

              The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

              by al Fubar on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 09:21:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Minnesota Caucuses (0+ / 0-)

                Difficult but not impossible -- I seem to recall Jesse Jackson did surprisingly well in the Minnesota caucuses in '88, I suspect in part by firing up the youth vote.

                Youth, particularly, like to feel they have a hand in the making of history.

                One of the problems with Penn's predictions is that there really hasn't been a candidate as appealing to midwestern youth as Obama -- Gephardt was midwestern but somewhat stale.

                Dean, with all due respect, was exciting for some.  But despite years and a political career in the Green Mountains he never quite managed to rid himself of his New York accent.

                Kerry didn't win Iowa because Iowans loved him, he won because the Iowa Democratic Party elders decided he was the most electable.  Needless to say, their wisdom may be taken slightly less seriously this time around.

                It can't be proven conclusively until the caucuses, but Obama might hit just the right note for Iowa youth and those unlikely to caucus.

        •  Took the words out of my mouth. (0+ / 0-)

          I was going to point out that the lack of young voters is one reason, maybe the reason, why Kerry lost.

          "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

          by rainmanjr on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 09:14:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Yoshimi, casperr

          I was there, and yes, Obama had the most diverse crowd of any candidate, age and race wise, however, i was probably the only 18-24 "non-caucus goer" in my entire row!  

          and to be honest, most of the other young guys around were campaign interns or staff. and everyone was from Iowa minus family members of staff.

          hillary had a lot of out of staters there. i could tell in the concession stand line, they knew how to stand in line orderly like new yorkers do. (note sarcasm)

        •  Do you ever get the feeling (6+ / 0-)

          that most people on Daily Kos have learned everything they know about politics from Daily Kos?

        •  The age bracket you cite is smaller than mine (0+ / 0-)

          And of course, citing an ever smaller age bracket will result in youth voters looking like an ever smaller percentage of caucus participants.

          At a certain point, what matters is the turnout relative to the percentage of the population.  I don't have the stats handy, but I believe 18-29 year olds make up about 20-21% of registered voters, with 17% having attended the caucus?  Sorry I don't have a link for that.

          It's certainly a fact that elderly people have immense and disproportionate influence in the Iowa caucus.  But that doesn't mean that youth voters haven't made huge strides in increasing turn-out and that they aren't turning out well relative to their size in the population.

          Quadrupling the youth vote in the 2004 caucus is a substantial achievement that didn't deserve the media narrative of "They didn't show" just because Dean  --- the media's perceived youth candidate even though he only got 25% of the youth vote on caucus night --- lost.

          •  I think the age group I quoted stats for (3+ / 0-)

            (the 18-24 group) is a much more accurate description of who Penn was talking about than the 25-29 year olds that your numbers include.

            It's certainly a fact that elderly people have immense and disproportionate influence in the Iowa caucus.

            OMG, you're disparaging the youth vote!!! Or, is citing facts only bad when Clinton's campaign does it?

            •  Penn did not make a reasoned point (0+ / 0-)

              about young voters having less influence over the process than elderly folks --- which is not to say that young people don't turn out, just that elderly folks play a greater role in the process.  A hugely different point.

              Penn pretty derisively referred to them as "not looking like caucus-goers" and barely legal, implying that they're no-shows --- an assertion not borne out by the stats.  To me, that crossed a line.

              •  Yeesh (3+ / 0-)

                So if Penn had said, "His crowd looked very young, and young people are much less likely to vote than other Iowans," you would be fine?  

                •  Mark Penn essentially (0+ / 0-)

                  slandered youth voters who have turned out and are turning out in ever larger numbers and reinforced a media stereotype.

                  That's destructive to the Party.  You can argue for your own support among elderly voters without trashing other demographics.

                  •  His point was exactly the same as yours (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Gabriele Droz

                    It's certainly a fact that elderly people have immense and disproportionate influence in the Iowa caucus.

                    Everything you just accused Penn of applies equally to you.

                    And, once again, your evidence about college age voters drastically increasing in turnout is based 18-29 year olds--Penn was very clearly not talking about that whole age group.

                    Maybe you should direct your anger at Penn toward David Yepsen:

                    Obama is placing a big bet on attracting young people to the caucuses, despite the fact they're notoriously poor voters and caucusgoers. Only 2 percent of likely Democratic caucusgoers are under age 25, while 51 percent are over age 55. On top of that, only 23 percent of the Democrats say this will be their first caucus.

                    (Memo to Obama: You may want to start showing up for those AARP forums - and save the children's crusades for a state that isn't so full of us aging boomers and gray woolies.)

    •  It seem the spin is that Hillary is claiming that (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dotster, terrapin station84

      Obama is being an ageist when in fact he has no problem with people of any age, he has a problem with refighting wars of the past.

  •  Well done diary. Is this a Sister Soulja (sp.) (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Yoshimi, Geekesque, dotster

    moment for the Hillary campaign, where they call out young people to motivate their older base? Or is it real fear?

  •  And Obama dissed boomers (5+ / 0-)

    Who EVER will voters aged 18-85 turn to for the respect we deserve?

  •  I'm waiting for the candidate with the guts to (11+ / 0-)

    disparage all voters. "You should all vote for me, but you won't you lazy, ignorant sonsofbitches."

    Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

    by tigercourse on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:50:44 AM PDT

  •  This Is the Second Diary on this in two days (7+ / 0-)

    Both from the Obama camp, both citing the same Politico.com link, which by the way, does not support the idea that the Clinton camp is "disparaging" the youth vote.

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:51:07 AM PDT

  •  I'm so sick of Boomers and their (3+ / 0-)

    self-centered nature. What bothers me most about this is the idea that this is still their day when they are now the aging fading generation.

    •  Which just happens to have all the money (4+ / 0-)

      and consequently most of the power.

      Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

      by Dartagnan on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:57:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hardly the fading generation. (7+ / 0-)

      Being a boomer myself at age 50, I have plenty of years of political pressure and power left in me.  Funny too, for the first time, I am financially comfortable.  Politicians are after money, and they know where they can find it.  It's a shame you think you're rid of us, just when we have only started.

      •  I wouldn't mind so much (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Yoshimi, libertyisliberal, dotster

        if I didn't feel like the boomers if they weren't constantly fighting battles which have already been won or lost. It detracts from forward looking politics, Vietnam was over nearly  a decade before I was born but I know a kid with an above the knee cut from an IED in Iraq and so do a lot of other people my age. We want politics to be about our future not your past.

        •  We still honor WWII veterans for what they (4+ / 0-)

          did in the continuim of building this country.  If you don't know history the future will just be an effort at reinventing the wheel and doing things that failed all over again.  The idea that you can close the book on everything that has come before you, and only look toward the future, is really naive.  The number of people who were killed and maimed and are still dealing with the horrific occurances of those wars and are still living is huge.  Your wish to just concentrate on those injured in Iraq and not learn from the past to build the future, is nonsense.

          •  There is a difference between learning from (0+ / 0-)

            history and doing what boomers do. Learning from history is fine what the baby boom does is put every piece of geopolitical activity international or domestic into an outdated lexicon. The fight between Giuli and HRC is the same fight as between Kerry and Bush and Gore and Bush, there is a big divide in opinions between those who fought and those who stayed home, but there is a bigger divide between those who thought the war should have been left earlier and abandoned and those who thought we would have won it had we stayed and both groups have spent 40 years pushing on each other its time to change the rubric and Obama does that, I've had enough of my parents generation in power 16 years is enough and its not our fault (ie your children) that you elected Reagun or Bush 1 and its not our fault that this silly definition of politics in America continues.

            •  Welcome to the world. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              denise b

              Put a few more years on you and you'll realize that nothing changes from generation to generation.  It just gets a new package.  Politics hasn't changed much in the past several thousand years, and it's not going to change with your generation even though you are all bright eyed and bushy tailed right now, and think that you and your fellow young people have thought of things that have never been thought of before.  There is nothing that has never been thought of before, believe me.

              •  Wrong, wrong, wrong (0+ / 0-)

                Your generation did not face the same political issues as the one before. Or are we going to have to debate the disillusionmnet of the 30s stalinist in NY and the pro-fascist movement on LI both of which are well documented. Each generation faces a different set of problems and has differnt goals here's some definitions, Progess- moving forward toward new and better ideas and society. Progessive - someone who supports the idea of progress.

            •  I keep hearing this frame (0+ / 0-)

              but I don't see it. How about some examples?

              "There -- it's -- you know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --GWB

              by denise b on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:17:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  During Kerry Bush (0+ / 0-)

                Kerry was selected over Dean as the D candidate mainly because he was a veteran with an exemplary war record in Vietnam who had come out against the war after his service. The campaign tactic adopted by the DLC was to contrast this with Bush's Chickenhawk service at the same time and his constant support for preventative war. The right wing then applied the same argument its been using since the 70s when Veterans of Vietnam opposed the war, they didn't really serve, they were phonies there wounds were fake their medals were fake etc. The whole election in 2004 was framed in this context and guess what, we lost. That's just one example I have others.  

                •  I see what you mean now, but (0+ / 0-)

                  I interpret this differently. I don't think it had anything to do with being mired in old fights.

                  First of all, Dean's candidacy was ended by the media. They managed to paint him as extremely far left and then blew up his "war whoop" into something indicating mental instability. The media do have the ability to destroy a candidate.

                  Bush's real character can be seen in his past history - his drinking, drugs and DUIs, his failed and possibly unethical business dealings, his fake cowboy act - and especially his having used his family connections to jump to the front of the National Guard line and then again to get away with going AWOL. Also the fact that he lied about it, because Bush ran in 2000 on a platform of bringing honesty back to the White House.

                  Like many people I thought all this would damage him badly in the campaign if it was brought out, and like many people I was totally surprised at the GOP's ability to turn it around as they did. What they did was masterful and I underestimated them, in fact my jaw still drops when I think about it.

                  So in the end something that looked like a winning way to go turned out to be a disaster. But it didn't really have anything to do with Viet Nam. It was just a failed campaign strategy based on revealing his true character, in which we were out-maneuvered. Something we never seem to be able to deal with is the fact that they fight much harder and much dirtier than we do.

                  "There -- it's -- you know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --GWB

                  by denise b on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:45:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  generalize much? (5+ / 0-)

      At 46 I am not fucking fading. sorry. That is a pretty offfensive comment.

  •  Hillary is just being a WATB (3+ / 0-)

    because Obama would rather focus on the future than trying to refight Vietnam.

    We really need to get past that war.  We have been campaigning on it for the last 4 elections.  WTF?

  •  Well, you have to (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Pithy Cherub, rainmanjr, dotster

    admit this sends a rather confusing message.

    So, what else is new?  Ha!

    White woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (Endorsed 6/07)

    by nolalily on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:58:53 AM PDT

  •  The facts are that young people are the least (5+ / 0-)

    likely to caucas. That has been the history in comparison to other age groups like the elderly.   But of course facts can't be stated here, or by Clinton.  You just want to deal in fantasy.

    Obama doesn't say anything about senior citizens directly, but brings out the old scare tactic that Social Security is in trouble.  Of course that is acceptable.

    •  The diarist has a point though (0+ / 0-)

      if he could get young people to commute to Des Moines to sit in the crowd for a five hour long fundraising dinner, it's quite likely he could get them to support him at their neighborhood caucus on Jan 3rd.  

    •  The problem with Mark Penn's polling (0+ / 0-)

      Aside from being snake oil... is that it's only right until it's wrong -- young folks don't caucus until the first time they caucus.  White folks -- particularly Chicago white ethnics -- don't vote for a black candidate.... until they vote for a skinny guy with a funny name.

      South Boston -- "southie" -- would never vote for an African-American... and an African-American would never win in a predominantly white state with a troubled racial history.

      And, of course, no black politician can compete in a state like Iowa, with an African-American population of 2%.

      Anybody else want to buy that old 'bridge to the 21st century' -- you know, the one that led to Al Gore's presidency?

  •  Inspiring stuff from the Clinton camp: (6+ / 0-)

    Paraphrase: We're hoping young people won't get involved in this process.

    That's not exactly the kind of hope I'm looking for.

  •  so if young people VOTE, that should change (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hopscotch1997, Carrington Ward

    the outcome. Just don't "forget" to vote in the general election (it is the one that really matters).

    I don't understand why the voting participation isn't 95% among younger voters-THEY are the ones most screwed by current policies.

    I also don't understand why 80-year-olds are still so "active" in voting.  Why did Dick Cheney even want to be Vice-President?  Life is short.  His (with his bad heart) is even shorter. What is it about Republicans?  Why can't they just go fishing and enjoy what life they have left?  Or is leaving crushing debt and endless war their idea of "enjoyment"? Is that their "hobby"?

    But why bitch about it, just GOTV.

    •  80 year olds have the wisdom to know (4+ / 0-)

      what is important in life, and perspective.  Why wouldn't they be the largest group to vote.  Besides that, loyalty to their country was part of the WWII generation and what they taught their kids.  They treasure voting because they have seen real sacrifice made to ensure that we have that privilege.  They all had to pull together to ensure democracy, not like today when no one has to do anything if they don't want to.

  •  Even if it is not disparaging the youth vote (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Inland

    it is being pretty dismissive of Obama's supporters.

    And this was my first thought as well:

    ...young voters turning out to commute to Des Moines to attend a five-hour long party convention on a Saturday night is evidence that these young people will not turn out to caucus?  

    Ironically, I've seen the "he bussed people in" excuse coming from Edwards supporters, although there is nothing to back it up.

    •  That was the jist of one comment above: (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Carrington Ward

      It's not disparaging all youth voters, just the ones who like Obama.

      HRC would just as soon go into the general without those damn kids, and most other democrats, on her side.  She's driving down the turnout of her supposed party.

      "For a man who will turn 72 this month, he's a surprisingly immature politician--erratic, impulsive and subject to peer pressure"-Newsweek.

      by Inland on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:12:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where's the beef here? (5+ / 0-)

    The things these Hillary-haters pick to criticize are pretty lame.  I am confident that Hillary doesn't disparage young voters, given that they formed an important part of her husband's base, and given the fact that young single women form an important part of her base.

    Rather, all Penn is doing is providing analysis on Obama's demographics vs. hers, something which has been described by independent sources:

    Hillary is doing better than Obama among those voters who tend to vote in caucuses.

    Obama is doing well among those potential voters who are not regular caucus goers.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 09:33:31 AM PDT

  •  It is just (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    icebergslim

    what in sports you call ''bulletin board material''

    Obama's campaign will make sure to let every single registered Iowan under 35 know that HRC's campaign is counting on them not caucusing.. almost taunting them , daring them to actually caucus..

    It is a challenge that should help fire up the under 35 vote in Iowa.

    Keep arrogantly thumbing your nose at those hick iowans with planted questions and mocking comments about young voters, Hillary.

    Maybe Penn is right and those silly Iowa voters do not mind being insulted and will lay over for HRC's coronation... we shall see in 52 days if the prohibitive favorite will sweep thru Iowa like Sherman thru Georgia.

  •  Now also cross-posted on TechPresident (0+ / 0-)

    Here.  If you don't know TechPresident, you should check it out.  A really cool site about the intersection of technology and politics.

  •  What could be more important than... (0+ / 0-)

    energizing the youth vote?  This Iraq bullshit war is the war their generation will have to continue to fight.  I hope that is not the case with a Dem in the Oval Office, but it is crucial that my kids' generation get out there and sign up and vote this time around.  This is typical HRC crap.

  •  Drudge is giving major play... (3+ / 0-)

    ...to a story about four American flags falling as Hillary was leaving a Veterans Day event.

    How soon until we see a diary about her evil telekinetic powers?

  •  Obama has the broadest support of any candidate. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Carrington Ward

    Lots of older folks like me.  But the youth in the campaign are a big part of what is energizing the rest of us.  

    I happen to think that we need to let the next generation take the lead in 2008.  People of my generation have fucked things up enough in foriegn policy, with our outdated view of the world.  Our old wounds from the fights we fought (and fought well) against racism and sexism are blurring our vision.  

    Young people today are more progressive and tolerant and wise than any generation before.  They see a new set of problems that need addressing.  They have a refreshing new vision for the future, and vision, not anger, is what moves people forward.

    The more that the 20-somethings participate in solving our problems, the better, in my view.

    And I suspect that the Clinton campaign's comments will make our youth  more determined than ever to turn out.  These people are organized, it's obvious.  They're going to show up.

    "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama

    by keeplaughing on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 10:12:10 AM PDT

    •  Obama's broad base of support (0+ / 0-)

      When I was in Des Moines for the JJ, I met two older white Republicans who told me that their first choice for President is Obama! After that, they would go for either Giuliani or Romney. Both said Clinton will not be elected in the general. Let's hope that Obama is the nominee, and that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by nominating a divisive opponent (name not mentioned).

      I asked them to caucus for Obama, but they would not. But they will vote for him in the general election.

      Go Obama!

  •  Not your father's Buick. (0+ / 0-)

    And other marketing masterpieces.

    Ah, but does the Buddha have cat nature?
    --dallasdave ca. 2008

    by dallasdave on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:23:23 AM PDT

  •  And Clinton Camp disparages elder vote as well (0+ / 0-)

    A Clinton surrogate at a Democratic Club presidential forum in Queens argued that '[those women Clinton's age who are unwilling to vote for her have been convinced by Carl Rove and Fox news].'

    He backpedaled somewhat when I pointed out that my mother and mother-in-law had decided against Clinton based on their diet of NPR and The Times.  But he still seemed to think that Clinton was either entitled to their vote.  And he suggested that they probably wouldn't vote for "my candidate" -- Obama -- either.

    I thought it would be impolite to pursue the matter further, though I'm sure that both my mom and my wife's would have been quite interested to hear exactly what it was that might keep them from voting for Obama.

    One thing one learns working on the Obama campaign is never to take these things for granted. While petitioning I had the pleasure of conversation with an elderly Irish gentleman who was undecided but positive about Obama.  Granted, he did suggest that O'bama might be more electable (and less easily confused with a certain bearded cavedweller).  It was but one of a number of vignettes that would upset Mark Penn's facile stereotypes.

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